Episode 27 - Tiffany Apostolou - Re-emergence of Greek Art

Episode 27 - Tiffany Apostolou - Re-emergence of Greek Art

Our guest Tiffany Apostolou seeks to bring art lovers in contact with the intriguing and bustling art scene in Greece while simultaneously drawing connections with the art scene in the U.S. through Peri-Technes, an art platform.  Her goal is to bring the reader in closer contact with the work of some remarkable artists with Greek roots or influences, from the US and from across the pond.

The website features exciting news, artist features, interviews, as well as exhibition and cultural event reviews. Artwork created by artists who want to make the art world more accessible to everyone are featured.

Show Notes:

Episode 27 Tiffany Apostolou Re-emergence of Greek Art

00:00:17 - 00:05:03

Angie, did you have a favorite Fable or story you liked as a kid? Well actually, I bought several and they were mostly Aesop's Fables and yes. So guess what? What I'm going to replace today's quote with one of Aesop's, Fables, terrific, Hong Kong. Hi everyone. And here we are celebrating what people love to do creatively by giving them a voice, I brought Joan and I'm Angie Jones. Welcome to the thought Rogue podcast. We invite a subscribe, wherever you listen and we are available virtually anywhere, you listen to podcasts, no matter what you do creatively, this is the podcast for you, okay? Angie what are we going to dispatch today? Well today we're going to be speaking with Tiffany up a stolo about her experiences as an art researcher and the re-emergence of Greek art. Well, you know what? That's going to be interesting. Especially about her thoughts a living in Greece. I'm kind of interested about that. But how about your quote? Well, you know actually as I mentioned before oh yeah I'm not going to do a quote today but I'm going to share one of my favorites Aesop's Fables and okay, this one is called The Crow and the Pitcher and a Thirsty, Thursday. Pro comes across the picture which has been full of water. But when it puts his beak into the mouth of the pitcher, he can't reach the water. He keeps trying and trying, but he gives up a little at last. He comes up with an idea and he's going to drop Pebbles into the picture. And as soon as the water rises to the top of the picture off, he is able to quench his thirst. I know there must be a lesson in that cuz that's typical of his fables. Yeah, so what's the lesson, okay, so little by little does the trick when they first you don't succeed. Try, try again. Persistence is the key to solving any problem. If your first solution doesn't solve your problem, think of another solution, keep trying until you get an answer after all, it's better than just doing nothing at all. You know what? That's kind of a positive mantra that a lot of people are are trying to adhere to age. Today absolutely to it. Don't give up, stick to it and keep trying cuz you know, maybe it's just taking time for you to learn, you know, all of the things that you need to learn in. Don't give up and especially today, things can be very overwhelming with him to work more online and then you're more prone to make some mistakes and when you make mistakes, it could be very, very frustrating. So the best solution to that is, take a couple deep breaths and try again, right? Yeah. And then nobody's perfect. You know? And you're, you're not going to be perfect and it's that's what makes you you and interesting. So Rod. Now it's your turn. We're ready for rods motivational moments. Well, you don't know, I mean, I don't know if I could really possibly come up with something as interesting is that Fable you shared wage. Well, I think you can. Well, I had a very, very good friend of mine. His name was Paul Eastman, and he was a very accomplished musician. He was also a psychologist of all Thursday. Should be a musician with but he would jokingly say to me that person can see through a keyhole with both eyes at the same time. And I used to laugh when he would say that God because I know some of the people you might have been referring it to but what he was implying is that some of us can be so focused on ourselves. We miss the point of what's going on around us. True like, mono dimensional, focus, and that's, that's not really the best thing for anyone. I don't think. Well, you don't want to know other people out, especially you just never know what you're going from someone else. But yeah, it's good to be focused on your projects and what you're doing because that's going to help you succeed. But you also have to be open to other people's ideas and not be so focused. Thursday. It's all about you and listen to what other people say. You never know what you'll learn. And I remember telling our daughter one time, I said, you know, some people to tell you stuff that they've told you 10 times before wage.


00:05:03 - 00:10:01

Just have to be polite and not your head and go. Oh, that's very interesting because people do it. Unfortunately, as we get older, we have a tendency to do a little bit more, you know what? I think we do that, as we get older more because were retelling and reliving the story. And we're hoping that we can impart some kind of wisdom or some, some kind of moral of the story to, to someone maybe that's younger or even the same page. But you're just trying to relay a message of some kind to be helpful to your fellow human. Well, I know and I know what we've done that. I've done it, especially to our daughter. Yeah, I've told her the same story ten times that she's very often like Smiles would be nods like I know what your sights her disability and times but she still sits there and very sweet and cuz we just smile, right, right. But it seems like oral storytelling, folklore superstitions, and even quotes can be motivational or sometimes just scary with some of the, the fables and things like that. But that's only if you focus on a dog. And some of the superstitions could be downright scary. Yeah. Like you know the Black Cat one that's probably the most famous or walking under a ladder. Yeah I assume that's the sort of thing. You mean and nursery rhyme nursery rhymes, Grimm's Fairy Tales could be really scary like what it's at London Bridge is burning down. Yeah, that's more of a nursing, right? Yeah, that is a nursery rhyme Humpty Dumpty and all that good stuff but you have a Superstition that you do sometimes. Well, you do every time you have to come back in the house and you forgotten something. Yeah, that one comes from my mother met with my sisters and I do it. And when I would leave the house and I forget something, and run back into the house, my mother would say, sit down and count to ten. She's very, very firm about us, doing that. And I would sit down, and of course they say, why am I doing this? And she would say, well, because you have to sit or so, something bad won't happen when you leave again. So I would do it Faithfully wage. Interestingly enough as I've done it and our daughter does it, I know you taught her this and I had never ever heard of that counting to ten thing. But now I do it to wage, well I suspect her children will probably end up doing it. Well yeah, no kidding. But I even to this day my sisters and I we still do it went and she's in the car waiting for me. And I have to run back in the house cuz I thought that something and then she goes where were you so long? And I said I had to sit down and count to ten. I don't know. We all get superstitions from our parents and I have a really weird one month and it is on Wednesdays. You don't do laundry and this is something that might, I don't know. I don't know that it's a real Superstition. But my mom told me this. And every time she would try to do laundry on a Wednesday, let's say it was emergency or she forgot either the washing machine wouldn't work or something would happen. The electricity go off or some some weird thing so dead. She had this rule where we didn't do laundry on Wednesdays, which now, I don't do. I have never done laundry on Wednesday and then now, our daughter doesn't do laundry on Wednesday at a little, a little golden. Happy handed down from generation to generation. I mean, I don't think it's a real thing but it has become a thing. Well, I guess when it comes to Antiquity a lot of these quotes about folklore and other ideas come from Greek mythology. And philosophies. Yeah. And it seems like a lot of the literature we read today the stories and even the movies, often have some basis on Egypt mythology. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. A story is today, which has been going on forever, but stories have a hard time being a hundred percent original. They seem to come out of different cultures and histories and what's really interesting about that people will quote Shakespeare, but you'll hear Shakespeare quotes or themes in Chrome Movies are sitcoms that you watch on television. It's kind of a rehash of the stories that have been going on forever. And that's true with motivational quotes. Mhm, motivational quotes, like you become a think about all day. That thing has been recount. Rewritten, reposition a million times but always gets down to that same quote and I'm not sure who originated it but it's a pretty profound wage and it means a lot. So true. Okay well let's listen to our special guest today. Tiffany up Asolo. Okay, here we go off. Tiffany, welcome to the thought, Rowe podcast. You know, both engine. I've been really looking forward to chatting with. You is Tiffany good to have you with this today? Hi. Thank you so much for having me.


00:10:01 - 00:15:01

I'm very excited to be speaking with you, you know, Tiffany, we met you and social media, and you have had a very interesting life. You're still have a very interesting life in the art world. Yeah, thank you. We've been looking forward to having you as a guest on our podcast. But before we move on to our interview, we always ask our guests, what they have for breakfast. So what did you have for breakfast? Tiffany page, one question. So today, I had some Greek yogurt with honey, and now that it's each season, I chopped in some peaches, too. So it was a fun time off that sounds delicious. We had pieces this morning as well, yogurt and yogurt. So oh amazing. Great diet, minds think alike. I guess, you know, you had Greek yogurt. I was going to ask. You were going to talk later about your background and being in Greece, etcetera. And I was going to ask you, if you were in Greece, what do you think you would have had for breakfast? I think my diet hasn't really changed much, although the seasonal produce in in the United States is a little different, but I think probably something along the same lines or maybe some eggs with a little bit of tomato sauce in. That's a traditional Greek dish that we often do for breakfast. So you chopped tomatoes and crumble, some feta cheese, and then you add the eggs and scramble them all together. You know, you would think both inch and I have Greek backgrounds cuz that's what we have our breakfast. Sometimes sometimes. Yeah. Feta. Cheese ourselves too. So good. So delicious. Yeah. Mediterranean diet. Yeah. I guess that which would we know you have quite a background in the art World especially as an art researcher Tiffany. You want to tell us a little bit about that. Sure. So, when dead It started working on my graduate program. I started also working as an art researcher and then I continued doing so full time afterward. So it started with some exhibition research, and a lot of research for professors and people at New York University. And now I've been working at a blue ship Gallery. Where do I do mostly pronounce research, which is basically creating a document that lists the entire history of an artwork history of ownership. Where it's been shown, where it's been published any other fun facts about it and some writing as well. That's where marketing, research research the second page. Yes. Yes, not everybody understands it. So could you tell us a little bit about what the secondary market for our is, absolutely. So secondary Market artwork is any artwork that has dead? Had previous ownership whether that's one owner or Twenty. So basically, when it re-enters the market and someone who owned it, now seeks to sell it again, you have to verify everything about that work. So including work details and the basics, but also verify that it's authentic, verify that it's gone through each different winner in a legal fashion and all of that. So, it's sort of a document that says that it's okay to purchase this work. And here's its entire history. Wow. Interesting is interesting, took a whole almost pedigree of people that have owned it basically before. Yeah, it feels like each time. It feels a bit like detective work. You get to know the work. Very, very intimately and you get to know every little thing about it and what it's been through. Oh God, that would be very interesting, especially, with some Works avert, yes, the older, the better, there was a dog Time when I Rise photographer and I used to photograph, a lot of art for museums and we would take it out of the frame. So would always amazed me was all stuff. There was written on the campuses down on the board in some cases and on solid wood on other cases. But yeah the notes or it's almost as if these guys were trying to tell people something about themselves in the future, knowing that sooner or later somebody was going to look at the back of the painting. Yes. Absolutely. I think one of my favorite instances is was when I was working on a, Steven Perino work and we discovered an entire poem written on the back of cool. Yeah, it gave a very intimate field to the work. I bet. How do they apply that to the cameras on them? So in his particular case it was written in pencil. So I think we were lucky that it wasn't too old and it hadn't frayed enough so we could read it very clearly. Yeah. But I've seen pretty good. Everything and every time you think you've seen it, all you bump into a work and there's something new, that's so neat, it's very personal. It's like a personal note to the free one to the Future song.


00:15:01 - 00:20:05

Here I Am and there's some of them. Yeah, in my experience, someone could be pretty downright sarcastic. Yes, yes, yeah. Now, I'm going to bounce here to your Greek Heritage. I know when we talked about it, when we initially had a phone call. If you've spent a lot of time in Greece, can you tell us about growing up in Greece and your family and all that? Sure. So we moved there, when I went to fifth grade so it was quite an adjustment even though Greg was stuck in my household a lot, it was kind of a challenge to be thrown into school and suddenly you get every day and write it and the grammar, good Heavens, the birth. No, I bet. Yes it's a beautiful language but it could be a challenge to master. So it was a wonderful time and a difficult time. It was a totally different cultural experience than my life as a child in America had been. But I think what stayed with me the most was how much access you have just so much history, and how easy it is to get from one place to the next. And you're usually like a drive away or ferry boat ride away from a truly magical Landscapes and, you know, ancient sites and museums whether contemporary or not and folk museums as well. It's a place that's really connected to it sucks asked. So I think that was something that really Enchanted me when I lived there. I better better also though you're relatively young child, I assume you were in school when you log. Yeah, America. And then, you know, you had your friends and, you know how everybody chatted and talked and all that change, and all of a sudden you're in the Greek culture. And I mean, kids are kids all over the world. But that, yeah, they probably will just communicating with them things that were Coquille isms that you might have been using in the US probably weren't fitting in very well. They're right. Yeah, that's all of a sudden your brain had to transliterate. Well, it would actually instead of translating it would transliterate so sometimes like you would speak in Greek. But you would say American expressions and people would stare at you took like what what did you just say? And ironically, like, when I moved back that happened again, even though I continued training in English and, you know, acquired some degrees and Thursday as well. Like, when I moved back to New York, I caught myself having a hard time. Transitioning, back to speaking English full time. So funny, how the brain can adapt to what you're? Yeah. Environment is dead. And it's difficult sometimes to change back. It takes a minute, I think. Yeah, for sure I would think they'd be more sensitive to going into the Greek culture as opposed to coming back into the American culture. Is that true? So actually, I think at least so I lived in badra which is on the peloponnese, it's the third-largest off but I don't think it was very common for schools to get students who came from a different country. When I was growing up, I'm sure it's different now but but when I was a child, I was sort of a inaudible out. I I was in a unique situation so I remember feeling very out of place in the first few years and of course, like because I was in fifth grade, I graduated elementary school really fast and then I was thrown into middle school so that was a whole another joke. And this young. Yeah, so it was actually easy. For me to transition back to the United States and especially in New York, where everybody's from somewhere true and it's very Multicultural. I did bump into some misunderstandings during grammar school, depending on how old the professor was because my accent stayed fairly American. And you can usually tell that I've lived somewhere else from a little mistakes. I might make in pronunciation or syntactical errors. So it came up in my writing a little bit because I wrote more like a Greek and a Brit than I wrote like an American. Oh them, pick that up. Oh yeah, right. Yeah, wow, yeah. But New York felt totally comfortable. Everybody's from somewhere. Everybody has an accent. It's you fit, right? In fact, even if you hurt from New York, you have an ax. Yeah, you live. So, that's so true. Yeah, it's interesting. Either your professors pick that out, I spoke English my whole entire life and have lived in Merrick Dog. All my life, I still have trouble pronouncing. I still, I mean, I think what it is is that when you're trying to become an art historian, wage also trained in how to use the English language.


00:20:05 - 00:25:06

Very, very well. And so a lot of these people are, I don't know, English Geniuses. So they, they pick up on Thursday, the slightest things. Yeah, I noticed when we first talked to you in in even right now, you're very articulate, very particular experience, very nice and it's very refreshing to agree. I think this kind of leads me to. My next question is, how did you get interested in creating your own career in the art world? When did it happen? It's a good question. I wondered that often. I think it traces back to my childhood, of course, like as children and going through school, you don't really know all the jobs that you could do when you grow up, but I knew I wanted to do something else. Related to culture and the Arts in. I was raised like, you know, by Greek immigrants. So I was raised on Greek mythology and Aesop's Fables. And we talked about, you know, all the heroes of the 1821 Quake Revolution. So, I was very in tune with history and cultural heritage. So it wage was sort of always a passion that just like grew when I lived in Greece because everything was at my fingertips. So I think it started then and then eventually when is she's the workforce through architecture, I started meeting more people and discovering like what I could do in the art world and that's when I officially transitioned, into it off bringing in Greece exposed. You to incredible art. Yeah. And Beauty truly history. The history and beauty of heart. Yes. I feel very very lucky to have experienced wage That. Yeah, I can imagine. Now I know that when we talked to you initially on the phone you talk to us about your website and I'm going to try to pronounce it correctly and think is petty take naps, right? Yes. Yeah, that's totally great. You know, when I was putting together the title, I never really thought of how tricky, it might be for people to pronounce, but you did a great job. So yeah, people people remember it. Yeah, yeah. I don't know if like so basically what it means is about dead. So definitely and Greek means art and Betty is sort of like a word we used to say about or around. So, yeah, that's sort of how I came up with it off and then if we also have this word called Betty Tucanos, which means ornate and decorated. So it works like a sort of wordplay, well, nice. That's really nice job. That's you know, when you have words or a little bit more complicated especially to the English here. It kind of works to your advantage is actually a good marketing. Good marketing Ploy, because then people, you know, want to know what does that mean. Especially because of like we did when we first talked to you, we go, that sounds great. What the heck does that mean? And then you explain right direction of it and that was really quite interesting. So, unique cool. You want to know more about it, so you tell us a little bit about the program, you developed. Sure. So I sort of started working on it when I was still in grad school. When I started me to do more people in the Arts and I noticed that there was a gap in the market for Greek Contemporary Art. And so when people thought of great art, you often spoke of young art, but there is such a wealth of artistic production, that's modern and contemporary. And then I also discovered that New York used to be quite the hub for it and wage. There was even an auction house department at some point. So, it's specializing in Greek art, and I'm not entirely sure how and why it fizzled. But I thought it would be great to create a platform to not just amplify those voices. That had started becoming marginalized again, and under-represented. But also to sort of it was like an experience for me to to get acquainted with my own culture, and its contemporary expressions. And then, of course, that led to, you know, meeting and talking with people who aren't as Greek Heritage, but who are influenced by it and that was also fascinating to me. So what ended up happening is I started with writing articles and doing interviews with artists wage and then it started growing which was fantastic. And then in 2020 because of the whole pandemic and being blocked in. I was somehow able it sort of worked out A benefit, and we were able to do more with the artists cuz everybody was at home and everything in person had been postponed indefinitely. So, we started pivoting a little and what we, we added a page where people could feature their artwork.


00:25:06 - 00:30:04

And so I started working with some artists that I always already intending on creating exhibitions with them. And we also did a virtual exhibition, that's still on view, we wrote a catalog for it, that's online and free to access. And yeah. So we added that page and it's sort of added an appointment of, you know, someone could email us and get in touch. With the artist directly about purchasing an artwork, which sort of goes away from the traditional, you know, opaque Gallery model home. And everyone interested is involved in knows exactly like what they're paying for and how it's going to work. So it liberates the artist a lot as well. In that sense. Yeah. Your name. View. My next question was going to actually be how all that's been going on this last year and so and how it impacted you in your website Etc. But you kind of explain that I do want to ask a question about the history of Greek art in this country and was there any Contemporary Art evolved? Or was it all historical art? So, that's a great question. So in New York in particular, there was a huge influx of, you know, migration from Greece during from nineteen twenties. And after, and in the nineteen sixties, there was also like a Big Bam, I guess. So there was always groups of artists who are producing work there, you know, and you have like some famous names like, Stephen at the knockoff William Buzz yard, these and a number of other people wouldn't have been nice. We're still active some of them today. Yes, some of those. Yeah, Century artists then Century Modern. Yeah, I guess it's it's the funny thing about labeling art historical periods. I would say their modern and contemporary depending on how far back you go. But I think like with long as your tastes and likes, even though they're not ghosts, are definitely contemporary they work with well, I think so. Both of those people are now. Deceased is actually my favorite. Yes, she went temporary to this today. Yes, for sure. So, William also, you know, had close relations with Roscoe. And Stephen other Knuckles was part of the Light art movement, and Bush is Super Active today. So yes, definitely part of the Contemporary scene. But there's like so many others who, who are sort of, they they became Niche. And I don't really know why I thought maybe it's, you know, Gallery representation or, you know, the workings of the art world's exposure General. Yeah. But that was my goal was to see how they fell into a job. It's a whole art historical movements of their periods and how they were in dialogue with artists of their time that were more familiar with both inch. And I have looked at your website, is not impressive and we are listeners. Take the time to take a look at it and it's very interesting extremely well done. By the way, thank you so much. It's really quite good choice. What is the first thing that comes to your mind? When you think about the history of Greek art? I think what comes to mind is how it seems like. So much of the population is more familiar with Antiquity and then somehow from Byzantium and later we had ups and downs in the history of Art and how closely related artists were with other countries. And of course, like a number of wars and mishaps historical. Historically, speaking came to play dead, And that as well, because Grace has gone through like a number of very difficult historical periods consecutively, really have the, but I think that's what I've what I usually think about the most is how or ancient history and artistic production seems to be the most well-known, but then everything else. Sort of falls into people's individual interests. Yeah, now in your travels, through Greece, what was your favorite place to visit visually? Like, where when you go there you just go. Oh, this is just a slice of Heaven song that has so many places. I'm sure it's Fallen. I think I've fallen in love a little bit with everywhere. I've been. Yeah, I think though towards the end before moving back to New York I had spent a considerable amount of time in southern and western peloponnese, so around the area of birth. What we call Missy Mia. And that was a truly beautiful area. It had a lot of medieval remains and a very intense history with like Grace's Revolution for Independence in the eighteen hundreds.


00:30:05 - 00:35:02

Yeah. So it's, it was interesting to me to see how people were maintaining their traditional architectures and how nature seem to be so different from, you know, like the cycladic islands that most people are familiar with it's much, more mountainous and green, and I just felt magical driving around those Villages and learning about each place has history is. And you wouldn't think that so many small places would have such a wealth of History. Get like each one had some event to narrate. It's a pivotal part of the World. Civilization is taking place there. Yeah, you know. Answer this question but I'm not sure. Kind of touch on it again a little bit. So I get the impression, both engine. I get the impression that it's your goal to help improve Greek art and its understanding in America, but it's Resurgence if you will. Yeah, that's exactly right. So I basically want to put it in to context and direct dialogue with global artistic movements in production of each artist time because we have for example, we have like wonderful modernists in Greece. One example would be pekus and it's great to put these people back into dialogue with their own contemporaries and, you know, in Europe and America because it sort of creates like a greater continuity in history, and it just seemed as meesh as it might right now. And I noticed that lately, there's also a movement from other groups in that same direction. So, it feels like it's dead. Thing that's growing as well, which is great. Like, for example, we have like art Gaskins residency, that situate artists from America in Athens and now, they're also seeking to go the other way around. So creating a cross-pollination between the two markets, there's Hellenic American project, which has a mortgage sociological streak to it but it Maps, the history of Greek diaspora at Queens College and it also produces exhibitions. We have them American folklore society which is focused on the full Glory historical production in America primarily. So yeah there's there's been a lot of movement lately so it feels great and it feels like it's expanding formidable project for you, definitely. And I know we were talking about Greek mythology when we had your initial phone call log. In to really thought your answer was very interesting. So, I wanted to ask you about that. I know in the United States were exposed to various stories about Greek gods and things like that. But LS, you were experience and thoughts about growing up with Greek mythology, sure so much? Like most of us you start with a kosher version of the month and then the more I grew in the more into history I got the more I wanted to read more and then I became fascinated with how mythologist Joseph intercepted and influenced, you know, more cultures across the world and not always necessarily positively. And of course like especially if you go into like feminist issues that you know, that was a fascinating thing to see and also you know by extension see how artists and people are sort of reacting and responding to it today? Sometimes off. And I really liked the comment that you made to me and Rod. When we had our initial phone call where you said in the United States people grow up with fairy tales and in Greece, they grow up with mythology and I thought is so true, you're right? Yeah, I feel like so I'm not to discredit. I'm sure like children grow up with fairy tales. I had my fair share of wage, you know, Disney films. But yeah, it's hard to find a household that doesn't have like an illustrated version of the Greek myths, or, you know, the, the Gods on Olympus. Yeah, for sure, it's such a story. They have so much power and it makes ya read for kids, you know? Well water to drink human-centric, a lot of Greek mythology triggers. A lot of literature that we read today and you don't even know it right? Exactly. Yes. You don't know that. That's really based on Greek mythology. It feels a lot of stories, so many things yeah. Yep. So many things, I think the most interesting book I read about that recently was Antigone rising and so sorry. I forget the author's name but she she goes into details on how Greek mythology influenced.


00:35:02 - 00:40:14

You know so many cultures and in what ways and your mind sort of gets blown yeah, influence. Yeah. How layered it is. Oh yeah, very low wage so true. You know, our daughter visited nexos increase and she really loved the temperature in Fall. She loved the country. She loved the culture and she really loved. The people of fact, she's always telling us. We should not agree since true. She's ready to go. But what is she can't blame her? They were running right? Yeah, it was their honeymoon. Fantastic. The Stephanie thought was your most happiest memory of being in Greece. I mean, the happiest memory you had. And I'm sure you had more than one, but let's pick the campus. Pick the top wage. I have this might sound funny, but I think that happens memory. I have is actually a scent memory and it's this scent of eating big long. So we have around the summertime are figs, are fig trees are in. You know, they, they grow all these like, delicious juicy figs and the leaves when they're in Palm Beach cuz it's linked it's like forty degrees Celsius. In July, they exude this Aroma that alongside you know, the soil burning and the grass. All of that. To me, it became like the quintessential scent of Summer and it's one of the nicest, like, Memories. I have whats up beautiful memory, such a beautiful gallery and it was really funny because the other day when we were walking cuz we live in the mountains and you're aware of smells because right, the forest changes and log. Can so relate to what you said, on a different level because when we were walking, all of a sudden, it smelled like summer, because the trays were excluding they're, they're pining, would he send someone and, and tons of pollen and fortunately, but, but I can so relate to your your fig experience because they have that smell and you can't really describe it. But everybody right, you know, fresh soil, maybe your grandmother gardening. Yeah. Carol and then we'd love fix. So we go out of our way to find fig trees. So it's one of my favorite things. I look forward to it. This summer and fix it doesn't get any better, truly good, so good. So my question is, is have you ever been to Delphi unfortunately? No, I it's still on my list. I always wanted to go it so because you have to take a detour for Delphi birth It's quite out of your way and it was usually on our way back or on our way to somewhere. It was always sort of like we'll get to it next time. We'll get to it next time and we never actually managed to go. Well it is a dream destination. It's a windy Mountain Road and it's everybody talks about many things about it. Everybody reads about the off-color Delphi and all that. But it's funny how many people that I've talked to. I've only known actually one couple that actually visited there. Yeah. And the wife didn't want to go because it was so windy and they were afraid of heights and then, right? And then what happened? Well, her husband was kind enough to pick up a bottle of wine. And by the time she got there, she was yelling at the car windows and probably. Well, there goes another American probably. Oh, that's wonderful story. Yeah, that sounds cool. We write for, like, what happens on a Greek summer? Yeah, it's a magical place. I've always wanted to go, and I love the places that have such a spiritual history behind them, there, and energetically charged. I mean, not to sound a little to woo, but there's just certain places where you go and you just feel the energy, that's what we wondered about it. We're like, did you feel anything from there? Cuz it's just, you know, very tiring. Yeah, exactly. So the husband said he did. Yeah. I believe that. Yeah, she did. She did too. I mean she connected? Yeah, yeah. So I haven't gone. But I've been through some other places that are are like that. You can also sort of feel it in your in your other Cena so that area, it's right by Athens. It's like if you're going from south to North, it's right outside of Athens and that's where the illest Indian Mysteries took place. So, if you're visiting ancient sites, they're definitely feel an energy. And then I think the dog Place that felt utterly magical was on the island of meeting goes where we took a boat, and they took us to this cave, that used to be an ancient rituals cave. There's not much luck because the ocean has eroded everything, so they don't know the history in full, but you absolutely, once you enter that cave, it feels completely different from anything else you experience on the island.


00:40:14 - 00:45:05

I bit, you know, Roman culture and Greek culture, especially in, throughout the world, but especially here in the United States. Have often been confused when it comes to Art, could you define the difference between them? That's a great question. Well, the history and they're so interested in cross over in their history. So I'm sure for sure, but I don't know if there's like one definition for it. Usually it helps to read labels in museums because they tend to explain. So a lot of Roman production, especially dead. Sculptures that were copies of marble sculptures tended to also be in Copper. So they attended to be cast Over marble sculptures and painted. Yes, and I'm sure there's differences but because the overlap historically was so deep. I think the only real way to make yourself more acquainted and comfortable with. I, you know, sort of seeing the differences is when you read the labels and see things exhibited side-by-side like, for example, at the Met Museum, I think where it becomes clearer where the differences become clear off is when Byzantium was founded, and leave your moving more into a late antique art. So, there was that shift, that was also like a religious Chef, that affected, sculptural production, especially a lot and it started, you know, moving things toward a more Byzantine style and that's where you from Start seeing more of the difference, more naturally. Like it's easier to spot. I know when we were at the Met and we were in that section and there's so much to read something to, you know, you try to absorb hard to get to all of it. Yeah. Terribly hard at even when we were in Rome and we went to all the various museums and different places where they had a lot of Roman, our historical Roman art and especially with the stone work that was done in the collages. All that is amazing things. Most very, yeah and it's very complicated because also, for example, like a woman's used and hired and a lot of the times they were a slave's as well. Early, they hired Greek artist. So it's hard to really Define a line of like, what is Roman and Greek often. Like it was done under the Roman Empire but was the artist freak where they, you know, from Egypt, if this is Rihanna and it was a very Multicultural Empire. So it's sort of hard to like pinpoint one like strict definition romance weren't afraid to find talent and exploit it. Exactly right. And and even expand it to suck. So yeah. Yeah, definitely. Okay, so we have our list of questions for you. Let's see name, three things, you hope to achieve or accomplish in the next year. So I would like to maybe the alliance's make them short quick answer. Okay? So hopefully realize, at least one in-person exhibition. He had to post office, be really nice, a little more growth for the platform. And third, one meeting more people in Greece during my trip and coming back with more wealth. They you left out. I want to be on more podcasts, true. Yeah. Actually, this was a great experience because this is my first one. Well, you're you're doing excellent gas. We've learned a lot from you and I know our lister's will have to. Yeah. Well, you guys are wonderful. Hosts, you make it easy to talk to you. Well, thank you so much and your research that you've done in the art World. There must be at least one discovery that made you, or that, you were greatly surprised about what, what shocked you the most out of all your research? What shocked me the most, I thought about this today, it's where you looked at Rotten in Jesus websites about our art. Honestly, I don't know. Ever, since I joined me, aren't one that I have been shocked, like, almost every month. There's something new, I think, I think there was shocking experience was how much you can learn about in artworks history, just by being alone with it for enough time. Oh, I like that. Yes, it can tell you so much. And I think that was, that was a truly, like wage. Magical experience. I I I can see I can see that, you know, even when you go into a museum and there's always a herd of people standing in front of the most famous painting back and we can I always go up into some dark corner poorly-lit piece of art that nobody.


00:45:05 - 00:50:02

Yeah, it's a second thought to her a second chance to and then we stand there, you know, and a lot of times back in June, I will separate. So we're not confusing each other buyer or the energy with, which might be given up, and then we'll just sit there and take a look at a piece of art like that. And, you know, that artists put his Blood Sweat, and Tears into making that piece of work. And, of course, he's relegated to some little dark corner without no spot light in the ceiling hitting it, but it just had, they took a lot of those pieces. Give up a really interesting energy. I really feel that this is a more Modern Art, but I really felt that with our SLI Gorky. I remember that yes that was at LACMA right he gives of energy that's almost disturbing but it's pretty bizarre. It was a bizarre he like his personal history is embedded within his work. Yeah. Yeah it's if you if you read about his personal history which unfortunately a door adore has history, is history song must-read, honestly, I think everyone should know about him and his background, his background, his history and his personal physical challenges that he faced excetera wage. So now, we're going to ask you a question that we've been asking all of our guests. And that's if you could sit on a park bench and chat with anyone from the Past, who would it be something? I would say Steven of binoculars, Steven passed away in 2013 and it was the year. I actually moved back to New York so I missed him for birth. A hair. I always wanted to speak with him his work, so he does light, he did light work and he worked a lot with neon of course, like other materials found his drawings are stunning, but he had this fascinating connection with Byzantine art and it was such an interesting, you know, it was so interesting how he Incorporated it within his contemporary practice and I feel like he truly captured the essence of a lot of the core concept of that time. Which is no easy task. Absolutely not. I think spiritual thing. It was I was sorry to interrupt you but what's really interesting is your ability to see that and Define wage understand and understand him, it's what drew me to his work and to be entirely honest. So my master pieces also focused on Byzantine and Concepts wage. Found in contemporary artistic production. So she he was basically my idol. And yeah, if I could just have a moment to speak with him now. Yeah, I think that would be the most amazing thing. Well, you've had the opportunity, his art lives on and he lives through his heart, which has been very lucky cuz I got to go to a studio. And I met a wonderful wife and it was unbelievable. So, I think it was the closest I could get, I want a lovely experience. That is lovely. Well, we're at the point where we don't like to say this, but were getting to the edge the very close Edge to this podcast. And I want to really thank you for being our guest today at tivity, you're a wealth of information. You're passionate about what you do, which both the engine, I'd greatly appreciate that, and respect that. And you've been a great guest and were anxious for other people to hear what you have to say. Absolutely, thank you, mam. Being here so much. Thank you so much for you know, giving me your platform to share my experiences and work with you. If it's truly a wonderful experience to have that you know, privilege. So I think you very very much and thank you for your kind words. And I also I agree with you rotten and I so enjoyed having you here with us today. Tiffany and I want to let everyone know. If you would like to know more about Tiffany and her website, we will have links for Tiffany on the show notes. And also underneath the show guests tab on thought, Rowe, podcast. So everyone can learn more about her and connect with her on social media. And please check out our website. Yeah, please do. You're going to be surprised creatively. Expressed. Yeah. Inspired inspired, you'll be inspired. Thank you. Tiffany was wonderful. Having you with us today. Thank you so much. I'm really glad you tuned in today. We hope you enjoyed the thoughts and ideas. We shared with you. We post a new podcast every week. So remember to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts, so you don't miss a episode. So it's bye for now from my husband rod, and I wishing everyone a great day.


00:50:28 - 00:50:28

Off.